Sunday, July 16, 2006


This morning I sang these words, to the tune Moscow. I don't think Moscow is the same as this tune, but my musical ear is untrained, so I might be wrong. It's more like this tune, although we didn't have the apocalyptic illustration to accompany our singing. You can read about the author, John Marriott, here, an honours student in the days when that meant something.

Blessed and holy Three,
glorious Trinity,
Wisdom, Love, Might,
boundless as ocean's tide
rolling in fullest pride,
through the world far and wide
let there be light

As I sang I thought about this post on Faith and Theology - I wasn't sure if I really needed to read any of the books listed to gain more practical insight. By now, as a would-be theologian, I should have read Barth, Rahner, Moltmann, Pannenberg and Torrance at least. Perhaps I'll get round to it, but, before you call the cliche-cops, I'll just say that Calvin, Owen, and Warfield say more than enough on the subject.


christian lies said...

QUOIE:I am a Christian, and I'm currently preparing for Christian ministry in the Church of Scotland.

Favid, How could you ???

2006 years of christian slaughter torture and mayhem.

The Aztecs, the American Indian, the African slaves, Viet Nam, Abu Graib, ALL done by christians.

Were you to declare yourself a nazi you would be tarred with that brush.

To declare yourself a christian makes you in my eyes a willing acomplace in genocide.

My God Bless you.

christian lies said...


selling not my strong point.

Ben Myers said...

G'day David. That's one of my favourite hymns too (especially the verse you quote here).

As for reading on the Trinity: with all due respect to Calvin, Owen and Warfield, they really don't say "more than enough" about the Trinity! In fact, they say a lot less than earlier writers like Augustine and Thomas Aquinas -- and trinitarian theology has only really become fresh and exciting again since Karl Barth's Church Dogmatics I/1.

As a Scottish student, though, maybe you should try T. F. Torrance's great and beautiful book, The Christian Doctrine of God, One Being Three Persons (1996). This book presents a powerful and deeply relevant account of the doctrine of the Trinity, and it distils some of the central insights of modern trinitarian theology.

Anyway, sorry to disagree with you so vigorously. Calvin, Owen and Warfield are superb on many topics -- but they don't contribute anything at all to the discussion of the Trinity!

David Shedden said...

I guess what I meant about Calvin, Owen, and Warfield writing 'more than enough' reflects my personal limitations rather than some denial that modern theology contributes anything. I'm no scholar, but I guess I can see reasons why you wouldn't rate Owen and Warfield's contributions. But did Calvin really deny or delete anything that Augustine contributed? I always assumed that Calvin bacically built upon Augustine's doctrine of God. I wonder if you think any of these three writers contributed much to our doctrines of the individual members of the Trinity? Calvin and Owen, obviously in a very well defined (and often lampooned) tradition, have much to say about Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Anonymous said...

Christian lies is obviously confused. He/she is applying the term Christian to anyone who is a white caucasian, rather than someone who practices New Testament Christianity.

From his/her comments Christian lies seems to have a pathalogical hatred of all things Christian. He/she badly needs a sense of objectivity, which might be gained through looking into Christianity with an open mind.